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Carpentershop (guest)
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| 03/15/2008 5:04 PM |
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One of the new BOD members, Mike L. (I'd misspell it if I tried, sorry) asked on Fabnet for a list of concerns a few months ago, saying he would be taking it to the BOD meeting at the show last month. Weeks later we find there will be no reply.
Why not?
Secondly, at the end of 2006, around the time of the Vendetta episode, a list of questions was also taken to the BOD. Again there was no answer to the questions.
Why not?
Finially, why are the minutes of the meeting not available to members nor to the general public? As a non profit, my understanding these are required to be released.
Why are they not being released?
Respectfully,
Al Gerhart, Oklahoma City. |
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The Countertop Shop Mike Langenderfer
Contributor
Posts:4
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| 03/16/2008 8:25 AM |
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My name is Mike Langenderfer and don't worry after all these years I've seen it spelled many different ways. I did ask for questions and many of them were answered on the other forum. Many of the questions don't have a single answer. They are pretty complex and will take time to answer. ISSFA has many projects in the works that all are designed to help the fabricators both members and non members. There are problems in any industry and ISSFA is taking steps to help solve some of the problems in the solid surface industry. Not everyone will appreciate or benefit from the results but as an industry we will be better off because of the efforts made by ISSFA. And by the way Al there will be replys they just may not be coming as quickly as everyone wants.
I wasn't on the Board in 2006 but I can imagine some of the questions were the same then as they are today. There were many questions in 2006, and many concerns in 2007 before the last board meeting. And I'm sure if I asked today there are still many questions and concerns. I think there will always be questions. And I know there have been answers given to alot of the questions but not always the answers that everyone will accept. The fabricators on the ISSFA board of directors are volunteering their time and money to serve for the betterment of all fabricators. Will we get it all right? Probably not. But we will give it our most outstanding effort. And I'm sure no matter what we do there will be more questions and hopefully more answers.
As for your question about the minutes I'm not sure. I know there were alot of things discussed that are aimed at the future. Alot of these ideas are being researched and the facts and figures will be presentd for discussion at the next meeting. I think ISSFA does a good job of communicating to the members the ideas we are working on. I know we try to get as much feedback as we can from the members but you know how that goes.
This is only a suggestion from a member, maybe we should have an "Ask the Board" item on the next meeting agenda. Maybe that could be part of this forum. You post the questions and the board will post an official response. Now I didn't say we will do that that is just a suggestion that I can bring up.
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Carpentershop (guest)
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| 03/16/2008 10:56 AM |
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Mike, I respect the fact that you stand up and respond. I understand that you are one among many on the board and can't answer for all.
I'm going to find the list of questions from last year that Jon gathered and submitted to Issfa. Out of respect for your site, I am going to self censor some of the info so that the easy ones ger answered first. The tough ones can be addressed after you see the reception you get from Fabnetters.
Fair enough? |
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Carpentershop (guest)
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| 03/16/2008 10:59 AM |
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Here is part of the list from 2006
Copied and pasted from Fabnet:
12/03/2006 12:30 PM Edit Quote Reply Alert
Jon, here is what I have gathered is at issue, from reading this thread. Not in any particular order and remember that this isn't first hand knowledge.
1. Is the BB uncensored?
2. Have they listened to Andy, Mory, Jamess, and other members who have quit or will quit and found out their veiws?
3. Member benefits claimed in their brochure.
A. Seminars, ok, I have heard of a few. (new comment, why are members being charged for this info if Issa developed it, it has already been paid for.)
B. ITEC, is it making money, if not why not.
C. Lead generation, does this work? I hope it wasn't refering to everyconractor.com. Is anyone getting leads from issfa?
D. Industry awareness, I am trying not to laugh. Solid surface has been hammered. Don't anyone tell me they are doing a good job there. Consumer Reports debacle.......
E. BDGS- Do I remember a post that this fizzled quickly? Take it of the brochure if it isn't being developed.
F. Strategic partnerships , tell me about the money saving discounts and special group buying opportunities? Ok, the trade show discount, seminar or training discounts, what else? I am told by their fax that I can save money on tools, products, services and equipment.
G. Business Journal, is it any good? (I've never seen one, just asking)
4. Tom suggested a thread, available to all, member or not, on the improvements and changes needed, and a monthly or weekly update on exactly what is being done.
5. Mory's email bashing, that needs to be addressed. And for heavens sake, someone please send me a copy of it so I can talk about it intelligently.
6. Lenny's research, where is it? Make it available if it isn't already.
7. What is being done to bring solid surfaces market share up? Is adding E-stone helping this?
8. Universal Fabricator Manual, where is it after ten years. Andy's survey told of its popularity, however, I couldn't get many to participate, so maybe it is a dead horse.
9. Financial reports, from the beginning. Are they posted online? If not, why not?
10. What happened to the former issfa staff? I understand that there are family members working there, if true are they qualified and productive? Can someone find the old staffers and get some idea of what happened to them?
11. Affiliation to other trade groups, especially nkba. I know Jim Heapy writes a column in one of the trade magazines, why aren't more being done? These magazines go to most shops, home centers and designers. We must have a presence.
Here is a start, I'll look at the original issfa thread to mine a few more.
Thanks for taking these forward for action.
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Carpentershop (guest)
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| 03/16/2008 11:03 AM |
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Here is some more of the questions from members, prospective members, and ex members.
Copied and pasted from Fabnet:
12/03/2006 5:29 PM Edit Quote Reply Alert
Thanks, Seth, here is the rest of it, I hope I got it all. Some of it you put forward.
12. classes for advanced fabrication for more mature members of the fabrication community.
13. More help with vendors, I understand that most of the large sponsorships are gone, perhaps this could help them consider coming back.
14. Address the good old boy problem, admitted by numerous issfa members. Kinda like moving to a small town where you can live for years and still be considered an outsider.
15. Link and participate in all solid surface websites. Share the toys boys...
16. put up accurate member and bulletin board member lists so everyone can see if it is growing or shrinking.
17. Ensure accuracy in post numbers for everybody.
18. All major trade shows for the kitchen and bath industry must have a booth, a big booth with displays of counter tops and plenty of volunteers to answer questions.
19. Eliminate censorship on the issfa bulletin board. Add disclaimers if needed but there was a recent decision that said a site wasn't reposible for what inividuals posted. If necessary have posters sign a waiver that takes full resposibility for what they post, as it should be.
20. Address the culture of secrecy at issfa that issfa members have complained about. I have been told that it isn't true, but people I have come to trust and admire say it is there big time.
21. Address the compartmentization that hinders the different commities like the computor commities from doing their job quickly and easily. A non profit has no business hiding ANY information from anyone. Transparancy must be the norm in all but sensitive areas like employee relations required by law. This doesn't mean that Vendetta has a pass, so many people already know who he is that it has passed into the public domai
22. Streamline access for new members to the members only website. Many have said it was a problem.
23. It is widely understood that the staff at issfa is so interconnected that the functioning of the entire organization would be at risk if one person was fired. No organization should allow itself to be put in this position. Most companies have policy about family members hiring on for just that reason. A reasonable time to transform should be allowed but it must be done to insure continuity. Place rules to prevent this from ever happening again.
24. I may have already listed this one, but explain what happened to former staffers and interview them if possible to see why they were replaced.
25. Explain the deal with Fry Communications. Was it worth the money and is it worth it today? Is it true the press kit is of little value?
26. Explain what happened on the Everycontractor.com deal. Was due dilligence performed before the deal was offered and approved?
27. There seems to be a lot of talk about the director not following the board of directors direction. Is this true and is it being used as an excuse for nothing being done? If true, will the BOD do something about it?
Now, in these two posts, I have readily admitted that I am just the gatherer of information, relying others for accuracy of the complaints. Still, after talking privately to others in addition to rereading the posts, there s so much that must be done to stop the hemmorage of issfa support, both fabricator and supplier.
I still am going to join next week, however it would be foolish to join till V****** has been dealt with and the board has made public that the guy has been fired at the least. As a business owner and a someone who must go into people's homes on a regular basis, I can't afford to have someone of low character on my payroll. Neither can issfa. To many people know who he is for this to be swept under the rug.
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Carpentershop (guest)
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| 03/16/2008 11:08 AM |
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Some more questions from interested parties back in 2006
"Jon and Al, Here is the question I would like answered. Who sets the vision for the direction of ISSFA, Oxley or the BOD, and what is ISSFA's vision for the next 5 years? Please post the board's response here on this site."
"Here is a question for you. I understand that manufacturers are not supposed to be on the board, which makes sense to me. Can you explain to me why Evan Kruger, who is a manufacturer of EOS, is on the board? Have the rules changed because he is also a fabricator. Evan, I have the utmost respect for you and I don't mean any harm by this post, but rules are rules. If one is allowed to do it, then why aren't all the rest allowed? Or, is the board bending the rules? "
The entire thread can be read here
http://www.thefabricatornetwork.com/Forum/tabid/164/forumid/145/tpage/1/view/Topic/postid/219157/Default.aspx
Don't go without a thick skin. You will see from my posts I was planning on joining, got lied to and decided not to join.
A whole lot of people would rejoin if some answers were forthcoming and some problems were dealt with. |
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Carpentershop (guest)
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| 03/16/2008 11:09 AM |
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| Oh, is Issfa supporting Buildclean.org? If not, why not? |
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The International Solid Surface Fabricatiors Assoc William F. Wolle
Contributor
Posts:41
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| 03/17/2008 6:19 AM |
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Al, I am not a board member, may I answer some of the questions? I will not answer all as I do not have all the answers. And to save typing, I will list the number/letter of your question.
1. The BB is only censored to the rules and guidlines every poster must agree to when they first sign on. No personal attacks, no profanity, not blatent self promotion, in otherwords, act like a professional and curteous person. (my spelling is not the best)
2. There have been many conversations with the people you have listed and they have also been invited to board meetings. Some have renewed their membership. You would have to ask them if they feel they have been listened to. Please understand ISSFA can not act on the views of a few. If a majority of the members wish a thing, then ISSFA can act. Unfortunatly, as an association, action may not always be the swiftest.
3. Membership benifits listed in the brochure are all real.
A. Seminars have costs associated with development and holding them. Such as meeting room costs, food, travel for presenters, handouts, etc. If you look at the costs for an ISSFA seminar compared to something like "Fred Prior Seminars", I think you will find ISSFA is very inexpensive. Also, through June 30th of this year, all ISSFA education (except Total Fabrication Training) is subsidized with long term reserve funding at 50% off for members.
B. ITEC, with the help of many industry donations of tools and materials is "in the black". All of ISSFA works on a zero based budget system. Everything must generate the income to at least cover costs. Members get a financial review at the end of every year in the Association Report. The '07 was sent to members just before the EXPO.
C. everycontractor.com has been gone for close to 2 years. The only lead generation I know of is the "Find a Fabricator" locator available to the public on the home page of the website.
D. Industry awareness. The BOD and everyone I know agrees this is something that needs to be done better. ISSFA sent several communications to Consumer Reports with essentially the same results. They do what they want to do. There was little false info in their report, it was just not showing all the good about SS. ISSFA does do seminars to designers at KBIS and other industry related trade shows.
E. Sorry, not sure what BDGS is. It's 5:20 AM as I type.
F. Check out the Marketplace tab on the left side of the home page. 16 businesses offering discounts or specials to ISSFA members. And several more "working out the details" since the show and will show up soon.
G. The Business Journal is considered very good by everyone I have talked to. If you call me later today, I will send you a copy of the latest one. Note, I am leaving this afternoon for a 2 week vacation, please call today.
4. Not sure, can't answer.
5. It is my understanding that this has been addressed directly with Mory. With respect, is it anyones business but those directly involved? I don't even know what all happened and I don't need to, it is resolved.
6. Not sure what research you mean.
7. ISSFA is trying to get an Awareness campaign off the ground. There were 2 meetings with manufacturers at the EXPO. I an not in that committee and do not know the current status. I do know we present everywhere we can to increase awareness.
8. There was nothing here when I got here 3 years ago. Your comments about participants is true. Also, it is difficult to get manufacturers to agree to a set of universal standards when "warranty concerns" are involved. Currently this does not have the highest priority.
9. No they are not posted online. They are available in print to members and sent at the end of each year.
10. Don't know, they were all gone before I got here. There are no longer any family members working on staff. Concerning past staff, with respect, is it anyones business but those directly involved?
11. We are trying. Jim Heaphy does an excellent job. It would be great if more ISSFA members did the same. Jim is not staff, he is an excellent model of member volunteers. ISSFA is sending press releases to multiple trade magazines every month.
next page
12. We have the Advanced Business Management Boot Camp and the Million Dollar Mentor Program for more advanced fabricators. We would hold other training. What type do you want/need? Remember, it must be able to put enough bodies in the room to cover costs.
13. See "F" above. And most manufacturers are still members. Only a small handfull have chosen not to renew. (only 2 that I can think of off the top of my head)
14. PERSONAL COMMENT - I don't think the good ol boy thing is anywhere near what it was 5 years ago. I PERSONALLY think it is minimal at most and going further away every day. There are no original founders on the current BOD and there have not been for the last few years.
15. Interesting comment. If ISSFA has no value, what toys does ISSFA have that you want shared?
16. Member numbers I can not make a decision on. BB numbers, are not a reflection on anything but how many people make posts. The software we use for the BB resets whenever there is an issue with the web. To my knowledge, it has reset already this year.
17. see 16 above
18. I agree. Can you help get the money to fund these booths? The space does not come cheap. Can you help man these booths? I asked for volunteers to help with a booth at the last KBIS show in Chicago, no one offered to even help man the booth.
19. see #1 above
20. I am not aware of secrecy. I am aware of things that have been agreed by ALL parties ( both ISSFA and the "affected" party) not to be discussed further.
21. I do not see compartmentalization, I see having to work within the rules and by-laws of a government recognized trade association.
22. If there are website access issues, all you need to do is call the office, we can get that fixed in a few moments.
23. Anyone is replacable. I do not understand this one.
24. already addressed. see #10 above
25. ISSFA has not contracted with Fry for almost 2 years
26. It was over 2 or more years ago.
27. My only comment will be that if you do not follow your boss's directions, how long do you have a job? And there is alot "being done". Just look at all the other pages of this website.
The vision is set for ISSFA with a five year plan developed by the executive committee. It works with the current year business plan.
Al, please respect that I am not directly involved with some of the things that you question. I have tried to answer to the best I can and some things I should not address because I am not the involved party. I might also ask the value of continuing to discuss things that all the directly involved parties have decided to drop. Why not spend all that effort pushing forward?
Respectfully
Bill Wolle
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Jon Olson
Seasoned Contributor
Posts:189
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| 03/17/2008 11:01 AM |
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Bill I always tell fabrciaotrs that if they have a question to e-mail a member of the BOD and to Oxley as well. Do you think non-members could do the same? I think it would help Fabrciaotrs understand what ISSFA is trying to do.
Good Job Bill!!!!
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/sterlingsurfaces/
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The International Solid Surface Fabricatiors Assoc William F. Wolle
Contributor
Posts:41
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| 03/17/2008 11:13 AM |
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Jon,
Anyone can contact ISSFA at any time for any reason, member or not. We are always willing to respond. Just remember we can not always answer the question as fast as you may wish or with the answer you want, but we will answer to the best of our ability. I think I actually talk to more nonmembers during the day than members, although I do my best to get them to become members! |
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The International Solid Surface Fabricatiors Assoc William F. Wolle
Contributor
Posts:41
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| 03/17/2008 9:47 PM |
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| Dave, not sure what you mean. I was answering the questions above from Al. |
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Jon Olson
Seasoned Contributor
Posts:189
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| 03/18/2008 5:39 AM |
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Post deleted off topic |
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/sterlingsurfaces/
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